Where about the Reviews due out in February, Solar shadows & Overpricing?

Hi, to save others calling you a troll and incase you have not been following, all the above have been discussed debated, fought and still being fought over:

1) No reviews as no production approved homologated cars made. Likely The owners will be your first port of call for those.

2) HF said it's Rear wheel biased. These are electronic so can change... But HF does talk rubbish alot. However on this issue as it's electronic I believe him.

3) No lumber. Just up, down, forward and backward and recline. 6 way.

4) Solar distraction. He'll provide you with a tint or a likely manual slide cover. You may have to pay for one either or both. 

5) SOC for the entertainment unit is about 7-8 year old Intel atom as far as we know from the leaks and manual.

6) Car is expensive, has a mixture of new and really old tech but assuming range is as stated still best bang for buck. Don't expect MB/BMW quality and DON'T EXPECT it to be a luxury SUV like Henrik said. 

7) Still more info to be released. Car not homologised. End on March some surprise. 

In the UK £60k now is ok as Hyundai and Kia are similar in the souped up form. It's why I'm still sticking with this before I decide to go elsewhere. Just waiting like all of us for some unbiased reviews. 

Hard to not label someone with 3 total posts a troll when they dredge up previously discussed (ad nauseum) complaints/concerns when a simple subject search would point them exactly to what they are looking for.

if you think a $70k EV with 350 miles range, seating for 5, near convertible-like features, 22” wheels standard,  and performance found on $100k Porsches and M Series bimmers is “overpriced”, then there is nothing we can ever say to disavow you of that notion.

Posted by: @seaphil

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Hard to not label someone with 3 total posts a troll when they dredge up previously discussed (ad nauseum) complaints/concerns when a simple subject search would point them exactly to what they are looking for.

if you think a $70k EV with 350 miles range, seating for 5, near convertible-like features, 22” wheels standard,  and performance found on $100k Porsches and M Series bimmers is “overpriced”, then there is nothing we can ever say to disavow you of that notion.

Its on the expensive side up against other EV rivals. The $100k ICE car performance is legit, but most EVs dish this much or more performance for a good bit less now than the Ocean. Keep in mind the Ocean was right on target WITH extra features prior to the prices wars of 2023. A Tesla MY performance is now ~$50k after tax credits and is faster than the Ocean, seats up to 7, standard 21" wheels and nearly the same range (I think its important to highlight that the Ocean will likely get closer to ~320 miles of range on 22" vs their base 20" that are used for the claimed 350 range. Tesla is hyper efficient and goes from 330 miles of range to 303 with 1" of wheel difference, a nearly 30 miles or ~10% hit. Its not really a performance thing either as slapping 20" wheels on the performance gives people that 330 range it would seem. I fully expect a bigger hit than people expect with an extra 2" of rims. Folks continue to post specs of 350 miles with 22" wheels and that is very likely not the case. Realistic expectations should be made considering Fisker has STILL yet to provide concrete details on this important spec).

The Ocean is realistically $20k more expensive than the Tesla MY performance now. The Ocean is rather expensive up against its peers and competition in the EV space atm. You can absolutely think that the additional features the Ocean offers is worth that extra money, but $20k is a whole vehicle class of difference now. The Ocean is expensive, hard stop. Whether it commands that significant price premium is yet to be seen, but it certainly could be. Many folks are not convinced that the premium is worth it now, and Henrik and Fisker are not doing many favors by not filling in the gaps and providing details that have people wondering and speculating.

@seaphil 20"... please don't confuse most of us as ONE owners..! Most are going to be Extreme,  we were promised 22" but thats changed to 20"  ;-(

Posted by: @grimtango

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Its on the expensive side up against other EV rivals. The $100k ICE car performance is legit, but most EVs dish this much or more performance for a good bit less now than the Ocean. Keep in mind the Ocean was right on target WITH extra features prior to the prices wars of 2023. A Tesla MY performance is now ~$50k after tax credits and is faster than the Ocean, seats up to 7, standard 21" wheels and nearly the same range (I think its important to highlight that the Ocean will likely get closer to ~320 miles of range on 22" vs their base 20" that are used for the claimed 350 range. Tesla is hyper efficient and goes from 330 miles of range to 303 with 1" of wheel difference, a nearly 30 miles or ~10% hit. Its not really a performance thing either as slapping 20" wheels on the performance gives people that 330 range it would seem. I fully expect a bigger hit than people expect with an extra 2" of rims. Folks continue to post specs of 350 miles with 22" wheels and that is very likely not the case. Realistic expectations should be made considering Fisker has STILL yet to provide concrete details on this important spec).

The Ocean is realistically $20k more expensive than the Tesla MY performance now. The Ocean is rather expensive up against its peers and competition in the EV space atm. You can absolutely think that the additional features the Ocean offers is worth that extra money, but $20k is a whole vehicle class of difference now. The Ocean is expensive, hard stop. Whether it commands that significant price premium is yet to be seen, but it certainly could be. Many folks are not convinced that the premium is worth it now, and Henrik and Fisker are not doing many favors by not filling in the gaps and providing details that have people wondering and speculating.

 

The 330 mile Tesla Y is 19" wheels so it is a 2" difference as well.  The Model Y Performance (which BTW is not available as a 7-seater) is $59k.  For comparable to the Ocean, you need to add Enhanced Autopilot bringing the price to $65k.  As I am confident on getting the tax credit, the price difference is $4k.  The value of the Ocean is considerably more than the $4k difference.  The Tesla is really only "hyper efficient" when looking at their cooked EPA numbers; not so much, when comparing WLTP.  Also, the more aerodynamic efficient a vehicle is, the more it will suffer due to the wheel difference.

Posted by: @ttrinchi

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Posted by: @grimtango

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Its on the expensive side up against other EV rivals. The $100k ICE car performance is legit, but most EVs dish this much or more performance for a good bit less now than the Ocean. Keep in mind the Ocean was right on target WITH extra features prior to the prices wars of 2023. A Tesla MY performance is now ~$50k after tax credits and is faster than the Ocean, seats up to 7, standard 21" wheels and nearly the same range (I think its important to highlight that the Ocean will likely get closer to ~320 miles of range on 22" vs their base 20" that are used for the claimed 350 range. Tesla is hyper efficient and goes from 330 miles of range to 303 with 1" of wheel difference, a nearly 30 miles or ~10% hit. Its not really a performance thing either as slapping 20" wheels on the performance gives people that 330 range it would seem. I fully expect a bigger hit than people expect with an extra 2" of rims. Folks continue to post specs of 350 miles with 22" wheels and that is very likely not the case. Realistic expectations should be made considering Fisker has STILL yet to provide concrete details on this important spec).

The Ocean is realistically $20k more expensive than the Tesla MY performance now. The Ocean is rather expensive up against its peers and competition in the EV space atm. You can absolutely think that the additional features the Ocean offers is worth that extra money, but $20k is a whole vehicle class of difference now. The Ocean is expensive, hard stop. Whether it commands that significant price premium is yet to be seen, but it certainly could be. Many folks are not convinced that the premium is worth it now, and Henrik and Fisker are not doing many favors by not filling in the gaps and providing details that have people wondering and speculating.

 

The 330 mile Tesla Y is 19" wheels so it is a 2" difference as well.  The Model Y Performance (which BTW is not available as a 7-seater) is $59k.  For comparable to the Ocean, you need to add Enhanced Autopilot bringing the price to $65k.  As I am confident on getting the tax credit, the price difference is $4k.  The value of the Ocean is considerably more than the $4k difference.  The Tesla is really only "hyper efficient" when looking at their cooked EPA numbers; not so much, when comparing WLTP.  Also, the more aerodynamic efficient a vehicle is, the more it will suffer due to the wheel difference.

 

Just because a few One buyers might get a tax credit does not mean that anyone else will. You cannot realistically factor that in to the Ocean as Fisker needs to sell 100s of thousands of these. Not just 5000. 

The Ocean is not comparable to the Enhanced Autopilot... It is equal to the included Autopilot, which is standard. Fisker's system is equal to base Autopilot. Enhanced Autopilot is for extra things the Ocean does not and is not planning on doing at all, besides maybe some parking deal. Also, that feature is missing and is expected at a "later date". Either way its possibly a wash, and 99% of people only really want adaptive cruise, and for Fisker thats a very expensive prop.

1. Navigate on Autopilot
2. Auto Lane Change
3. Autopark
4. Summon
5. Smart Summon

The MY with 7 seats is even cheaper... so... a Win! If you want speed the Tesla is still faster, and at a much lower price. "Cooked EPA numbers" please. Tesla does not qualify their numbers, the EPA does. So lets take away your tax credit argument since that is isolated to a very select few, and the Ocean Extreme base in white is ~$12k more than the MY P. That is still a massive price increase.

Really the argument that the Ocean is not more expensive or high priced is just silly. It absolutely is. Especially now since prices have dropped considerably from the competition. Argue until you are blue in the face about how your specific One is not more expensive because of the paper features and lucky tax break all you want. The Ocean is priced in a whole different vehicle class in its current form and that is just flat out true. "Overpriced" is a subjective argument and you can argue that it isn't "overpriced" but it is absolutely a good bit more expensive to similar (and in some specs inferior) to much cheaper competition. Its a problem whether it applies to you or not. If you were not getting that $7500 you would be in the same boat as 50,000+ others who are staring at the Ocean thinking "wow, thats quite a bit more expensive, not sure it is worth that premium". If you want Fisker to survive, its about an awful lot more than just the One crowd "getting theirs"

@grimtango Funny how you pick and choose what is convenient for you.  You talk about how they need to focus on future sales but something available "late 2023" has zero value.  The standard features for the Extreme/One (and Fisker Intelligent Pilot Upgrade for the other trims) are more in line with Enhanced autopilot including auto lane-change and auto parking. Yes, doesn't have smart summon.  I use auto lane-change and auto parking; I tried smart summon twice but will no longer use it so will definitely not miss it.  I don't qualify for the tax credit on the Y so doesn't really mean much (I can get the credit through leasing from either company so that's fine).

It is well documented that there are different ways to calculate EPA; Tesla chooses to use a different method than all the other manufactures giving them a better unattainable EPA rating than others.  I blame the EPA for allowing the loophole more than Tesla for taking advantage of it; but don't pretend just cause they were able to achieve that rating that it is comparable to the other BEVs.

How did you interpret $4k more as "not more expensive"??????  I will need to confirm with my kid's teacher but believe $69k is more than $65k.  It doesn't change the fact that it is a much better value in my opinion - I am not sure why you think I am arguing this opinion?  If you think the Tesla is a better value; feel free to go buy one.  I wish you all the luck and see you back here in a few years when you see the light.  

@ttrinchi Grim Tango Guy bought a Rivian instead. For alot cheaper. I doubt he'll be moaning on this forum. He also already has a MY-P.

Posted by: @ttrinchi

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@grimtango Funny how you pick and choose what is convenient for you.  You talk about how they need to focus on future sales but something available "late 2023" has zero value.  The standard features for the Extreme/One (and Fisker Intelligent Pilot Upgrade for the other trims) are more in line with Enhanced autopilot including auto lane-change and auto parking. Yes, doesn't have smart summon.  I use auto lane-change and auto parking; I tried smart summon twice but will no longer use it so will definitely not miss it.  I don't qualify for the tax credit on the Y so doesn't really mean much (I can get the credit through leasing from either company so that's fine).

It is well documented that there are different ways to calculate EPA; Tesla chooses to use a different method than all the other manufactures giving them a better unattainable EPA rating than others.  I blame the EPA for allowing the loophole more than Tesla for taking advantage of it; but don't pretend just cause they were able to achieve that rating that it is comparable to the other BEVs.

How did you interpret $4k more as "not more expensive"??????  I will need to confirm with my kid's teacher but believe $69k is more than $65k.  It doesn't change the fact that it is a much better value in my opinion - I am not sure why you think I am arguing this opinion?  If you think the Tesla is a better value; feel free to go buy one.  I wish you all the luck and see you back here in a few years when you see the light.  

Sir, again its not about your situation. Its about others situation. Your situation does not define others, and your unique situations are not valid arguments for value proposition outside of your little bubble. Everyone else's situation is valid, despite your specific scenario and feelings.

"I use auto lane-change and auto parking; I tried smart summon twice but will no longer use it so will definitely not miss it"
"I don't qualify for the tax credit on the Y so doesn't really mean much"

Notice a theme there? Kinda like... "Funny how you pick and choose what is convenient for you" - Indeed. Pot, meet kettle.

Posted by: @drshahali10

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@ttrinchi Grim Tango Guy bought a Rivian instead. For alot cheaper. I doubt he'll be moaning on this forum. He also already has a MY-P.

I like this forum! I like the people here! Despite the rather stubborn nature of positions. Although... that is what makes a good forum honestly. Discussion and debate is influential and usually rather helpful. Most people here keep it rather civil as well even when there are disagreements which is pretty excellent.

We can debate, and moan, and question all day. Ultimately the people here are EV fans who get it. Which EV is better than that EV and why is just banter. What I don't find here is the insufferable hatred for this or that for no reason other than "politics" or muh feelings. Although we do have plenty of Tesla haters here, and they are absolutely silly for it, they don't really take it too far beyond stating they "can't wait to get rid of it" or "Elon hurt my feelings". The people on this forum are mostly just excited to get a cool new EV that looks the business. My frustrations are 100% with the handling of the Ocean launch and the frankly spooky behavior of Fisker as a company when it comes to this product that has had the most confusing paper launch I have ever seen. Usually paper launches at least include specs when the Launch occurs.

Time marches on and at the end of the day Fisker will either produce the product that was promised, and it will be great. Or not. Either way, people are getting into EVs and that is even more excellent. 

@seaphil Hey its a $70 thousand dollar car & its nice to know about what your buying. And when you hear sports car handling & witness videos it doesnt look that way, Then you start reading its front wheel biased not something previously acknowledged. The outside noise on the video & the solar shadows also seemed like a concern. Great if it works for you!

I agree. My fear is after ive given £60k if it turns out to be a lemon. I'm in a precarious position that i may have to order an Ocean before review incase i loose my spot as i need the car idealy Feb 2024. 

However, i am mindful that the reservartions have not sky rocketed and many people will back out, heck there are some One owners who would like to back out. 

My worry about reviews is there are some Real  TESLA haters here but then there are some people who swwear buy it and its build quality. So i guess everythig is personal preference but to down £60k on something i have nit seen or touched is difficult. 

@david-musiker David, a quick check of my previous posts, close to 800 of them, has more than demonstrated my concerns and my fears. But, until we actually get bona fide material released from reliable reviewers, or Fisker himself, it does us all little good to keep speculating and worrying about what if’s could iF’s and maybes. 
yeah, we all have a lot of money invested in this and we knew going in we were taking a risk with our $5000 deposit on an unproven, unseen, untested car, but we also felt that there was enough evidence out there to make a semi informed decision. I am not exactly in a position where I can toss $5000 down the drain, but I also believe that this car will be something special and I’m choosing to hold on at least until I get mine delivered.